Hello,

I'm seriously in bad shape here. I probably have a story resembling other HOCD sufferers, however with my HOCD it has gotten out of hand. Please help.

My story begins when i'm 14 years old, in school. I got called "gay" by someone. I have no idea if this person meant it or if it was just to irritate me or anything. I responded in a serious way saying that i'm not and got slightly angry. It's not that I have anything against gay people or anything, I just never understood other people's need to make fun of someone by saying they have a sexual orientation they don't have. For some reason, most likely my reaction to this, people started saying I was gay. I became depressed then, and had a small HOCD bout, during two weeks. I feared that I was gay/bi because I had what I would later know to be an "intrusive thought" about a friend. It vanished for years, but the fear of others perceiving me as gay has remained.

Now, i'm a guy who's never had a girlfriend, never was too convident with them or anything, and never dared to make a move with women until recently, while always wanting to get a girlfriend quite badly. When I was 15, I moved to the other side of the country and the same story started there. I was jokingly called gay again. This time i'm sure it was a joke, but after having the experience that I had gone through in the other school, I felt really paranoid.

I started to "hear" people everywhere call me gay, or saying i'm a f*g, even random people in the street, passing by my house, at the busstop, on the train. I felt like everyone was staring at me, talking about me and I felt everyone thought I was gay..

When I turned 17, my parents decided to move once again, to my regret back to the place where I was bullied and had been in school at 14.
My parents divorced shortly after and life turned into an even greater hell for me. I had to go to college, despite me don't wanting to. I only had one friend there, and as you can guess, only having one friend didn't much help my anxiety or my OCD. I felt people thought I was gay and that that was the reason I only had this one friend. The fear became so intense that I started to have intrusive thoughts about this guy, and I dropped out of college, wondering what was happening to me, and if I was suddenly turning gay or bi.

I spent 6 months in a four-walled hell. My own home. I didn't go outside for months, I had intrusive thoughts with every male I saw, my attraction to women seemed to have vanished and my libido was dead.
After googling on the internet with the phrase "fear of turning gay", I found out about HOCD, and that it was actually a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. For the first time in months I slept well. The day after that, I made an appointment with my physician and he said that it did indeed sound like OCD. I was diagnosed with Pure O by a psychologist in November 2008. I was put on Seroxat 60mg, and later Zoloft 200mg. When my therapy started about half a year later, I went off of meds, because I was determined to beat this without meds. On top of that, I heard that people on meds, having finished their CBT, would often relapse when they quit their meds.

I was then diagnosed with OCD again, and a while later with SAD.
I still hear people call me gay wherever I go. If it's where I life, if it's across the country, in places i've never been, it doesn't matter. Even when I was on a date a few weeks back, I heard people say "it must be his sister or something". I've asked plenty of people whom I know if in any way they thought or had thought if I was gay. None of them have said so. Most said I was actually quite masculine and not someone they would think of as gay or bi, or that I gave of "gay vibes" or something.

I don't understand it, people... My therapist and the therapist I had before him have both said that it's in my head... But i'm sick and tired of "hearing" people call me gay all the time, or thinking that people think this about me... If everyone I know says I don't look or act like a stereotypical gay man, if I look at women, just like every normal guy does, then why does this feel so real? The HOCD in and of itself (the intrusions etc) are quite managable as of now, but my main fear is now that others perceive me as gay or bi.

Can HOCD+SAD make you believe that people talk about you and say you are gay behind your back or something? My therapist says i'm filling in conversations I can't hear for 100% with things i'm expecting them to say.
For example, i was sitting in the bus Tuesday, when I, ironically, had just come back from therapy, and there were these two girls talking. Then they stayed silent for a long time, and out of the blue one of them said something and I heard something like "He's only pretending to be into women." Earlier, on the busstop, I was looking at this amazingly beautiful redhead girl that was walking by, and I almost couldn't keep my eyes off of her. It makes me think that they thought I was faking it or something. Then again, i'm not even sure if they even saw me do that...
Please tell me i'm just suffering from SAD driven paranoia.
My therapist says i'm not psychotic or schizophrenic. He's been in teh business for decades, so I assume he knows his stuff.
I feel like if I made a move on a woman now, that she'll say "Why are you hitting on me? Everyone knows you are gay!" or something along those lines...

I really need some support here, people. It's making me miserable, suicidal even.

Hi and Welcome to Ofear OT!

I don't really have anything very ...helpful to say, I wish I did but yeah. I'm sorry to hear you're going through all that though.
To answer your question, there's not a doubt in your mind that most of this is "in your head". I don't have HOCD, but I do have social anxiety, and I constantly feel that way too. People talk about me, people stare at me, if I hear someone laugh then they're obviously laughing at me etc etc. So it would make sense that if you have both HOCD and SA, you'll imagine people talking about you being gay.
The thing is, though, that people generally don't care much about other people they meet on the street. How often do you think about people that way yourself? People tend to mind their own business.
I realise that, suffering from these conditions, this knowledge doesn't make much of a difference. Once anxiety kicks in rational thought goes on a vacation.

Hopefully someone else will be able to be more helpful. We have had some other members with HOCD here in the past, so maybe you'll find a few of those threads helpful? Just search for HOCD and you should be able to find them.

(04-15-2011 05:18 AM)Harold-L Wrote:  I don't have HOCD, but I do have social anxiety, and I constantly feel that way too. People talk about me, people stare at me, if I hear someone laugh then they're obviously laughing at me etc etc. So it would make sense that if you have both HOCD and SA, you'll imagine people talking about you being gay.

Thank you for your welcome and your encouraging words, Harold-L. Do you mind if I ask you if you sometimes really "hear" people talking about you specifically, even if you have never met them before? Just random strangers in the street or at the busstop for example? Because I can't seem to find a lot of stories that match with mine when it comes to that part. It almost seems like Auditory Hallucinations or something along those lines, since other people say it's in my head, but I actually hear it. People *are* actually talking, of this i'm sure, but I'm just hoping i'm mishearing the things they say. maybe i'm filling it in with what I half expect them to say?

Hello ObsessiveTorment,

Im afraid i dont have any information to assist you, but i did want to post and say Hello

Its very nice to meet you and thanks for dropping in......hopefully talking about it will help in some way.

Regards

Quote:Thank you for your welcome and your encouraging words, Harold-L. Do you mind if I ask you if you sometimes really "hear" people talking about you specifically, even if you have never met them before? Just random strangers in the street or at the busstop for example? Because I can't seem to find a lot of stories that match with mine when it comes to that part. It almost seems like Auditory Hallucinations or something along those lines, since other people say it's in my head, but I actually hear it. People *are* actually talking, of this i'm sure, but I'm just hoping i'm mishearing the things they say. maybe i'm filling it in with what I half expect them to say?

No problem OT.
To answer your question, I rarely actually hear them say anything. I do fill out the blanks from time to time, but usually it's all in my imagination. The thing is that, since you're constantly worrying about being seen as a homosexual, you'll have easy access to those kinds of words. Since you already have "gay", "homosexual", blahblah at the top of your head, when someone says something that you don't hear, it makes sense that you'd specifically use one of those words to fill out the blanks instead of something else. I don't have that particular worry, so I don't go around constantly worrying about that one thought, which means that I'll have a harder time filling in the blanks. If you get what I mean?

I don't mean it as anything negative to say that "it's all in your head" by the way. That doesn't make it any less real for you. I mean, all phobias are "just in the head", all feelings are. People sometimes use that phrase to make a phobia seem less important, as if we're worrying about nothing. But that's not what I mean. Just thought I'd clarify that.

Are you still seeing your therapist? And he insists that you don't suffer from some form of auditory halucinations?

Hey there

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

(04-15-2011 03:40 PM)Harold-L Wrote:  Are you still seeing your therapist? And he insists that you don't suffer from some form of auditory halucinations?

Yes i'm still seeing my therapist. Next appointment is Wednesday, and I can't seem to move the appointment forward since he's full.
He says that i'm not suffering from hallucinations since I only ever hear this kind of thing when people are actually talking. He says that my mind is simply "morphing" what they are saying into what I "want" (for lack of a better term) to hear, if that makes sense.

Do you disagree with your therapist? Do you feel that the voices sound too real for them to simply be "made up"?
I personally think it makes sense. When we're certain that something is the case, it doesn't take much for the brain to prove us right. Our brains are evil like that.

How long have you had this therapist? If you really don't agree with what he says, could you maybe try to get a second opinion from another therapist? It's important to trust your therapist, and if you feel that you don't then he might not be the right one for you.

(04-15-2011 11:16 PM)Harold-L Wrote:  Do you disagree with your therapist? Do you feel that the voices sound too real for them to simply be "made up"?
I personally think it makes sense. When we're certain that something is the case, it doesn't take much for the brain to prove us right. Our brains are evil like that.

How long have you had this therapist? If you really don't agree with what he says, could you maybe try to get a second opinion from another therapist? It's important to trust your therapist, and if you feel that you don't then he might not be the right one for you.

Well, I've been seeing this psychologist since a few months. Before that I had another psychologist treat me. he said the exact same thing. Yesterday I spoke to another psychologist about this because my anxiety skyrocketed. They both think I do not have schizophrenia or suffering from a psychosis. They have, all three of them, said that I was suffering from immense anxiety, low self-esteem, and then the HOCD on top of that.

In my mind, there are three options:
1) I really am misunderstanding what everyone is saying, and my mind is indeed morphing what other people say to fit my own expectation.
This one seems the most logical, since *rationally* I assume most people are not always talking about me, or busy with my sexuality.

2) They really are saying it, and people indeed think i'm gay. But that doesn't make sense from a logical perspective since everyone I know says "Why the hell would they say stuff about you like that? You don't look, walk, act, talk or whatever as someone who is a stereotypical homosexual".

3) I'm indeed batshit crazy and paranoïd and I'm hallucinating that people say this. I find that a bit hard to believe, since I don't suffer from this kind of thing anywhere else, unless I hear people actually talk.

As an example of point 3: I have gotten into a lot of fights with my ma about this, because it sometimes drives me crazy. I fear the neighbours hear us scream and catch bits of the convo. No, i'm not saying that they are putting glasses against the wall to eavesdrop, I just mean that they might hear us shout at each other and then hear that it's about "gay" things. Like me thinking that others are calling me that. I fear they pick up on this, and then think they will mishear it, and think i'm talking about myself and then they will think i'm gay. Ironically, I was lying in bed past Sunday morning, and I heard the neighbour kids playing outside, one of them is 9 and the other is 12, playing with some friends. One of the other kids asked their ages etc. Then, I heard one of these kids say (or at least I *think* thats what they said, I'm not 100% convinced of it that what i'm hearing is correct): "My neighbour is gay. I heard him say that.".

Again, i'm not 100% convinced it's actually being said. I'd really love to believe my therapist when he says it's "all in my head", or at least 99% of the time. Right now i'm just batshit paranoïd that my neighbours think i'm gay. And this is a small village where I live. So I would hate it if people started gossiping about this or something. That would mean that I wouldn't be able to find a girl interested in me..

My therapist says that that is what it comes down to: the fear of not getting a girlfriend, not being perceived as a genuine, masculine, straight male.
I've seen several psychs all in all, and they all have said the same. It's not psychosis or schizophrenia. Anyway, long story again. I hope I made sense.

EDIT: I forgot to add, that a part of HOCD appears to be "the obsessive fear that others may believe one is homosexual", according to this paper: http://www.brainphysics.com/research/HOC...ms2008.pdf

I know it doesn't explain me thinking people talk about me and (probably/hopefully) mishearing things, but still. Please let me know what you think.

Well I personally think that option number one makes the most sense. Option number two is highly doubtful. I mean, even if you did act like a stereotypical homosexual person, (most) people would be more discrete. They wouldn't straight out say "I think he's gay" when you're within hearing distance of them. As for option number 3, I think we should trust your therapists on that one.
It sounds as if the rational part of you agrees with that too, so that's good.
The problem is to keep the irrational part of your mind under control.

As for your neighbours, kids will be kids. Even if he did say what you think you heard him say, who would take him seriously? Kids always say things like that. Not that this makes much of a difference to someone who suffers from HOCD, you'll worry no matter what.

I notice that you don't seem to be too sure about your own feelings/thoughts yourself? You say "my therapist says..." but you don't really mention if you agree/disagree with him. Do you think the girlfriend issue is what it all comes down to? Is that something you worry about?

By the way, I'm not an expert about any of this stuff myself. I'm here because I have issues too. So I hope you don't expect me to come with any very insightful comments that might cure you or anything. But sometimes it helps to simply talk about these things. And, to a certain extent, I can relate to you. As I said, I don't have HOCD but I do have SA. So I spend a lot of time worrying about what others think of me too.

(04-16-2011 05:37 AM)Harold-L Wrote:  I notice that you don't seem to be too sure about your own feelings/thoughts yourself? You say "my therapist says..." but you don't really mention if you agree/disagree with him. Do you think the girlfriend issue is what it all comes down to? Is that something you worry about?

No, I agree with him, it's just that, seeing as how OCD is, in essence, an almost chronic doubt, it sometimes "feels like" you really are what you fear or that people really do say things about you.
I'm definitly sure that it's in essence about not getting a girlfriend.
That is, indeed my "primal" fear. I use the word primal for lack of a better description; almost all of my obsessions, safe for the contamination obsession (not a classic fear of illness, but a fear of traces of peanuts or nuts being on things, since I have experienced an anaphylactic shock as a result of consuming an almond) have basically revolved around that.
I've always been "told" by the bullies, that I was a no-good sack of sh*t, that I wasn't man enough, that I was whimp, and to a certain degree, I still, subconsciously believe that to this day. It prevents me from hitting on women, because I "know" i'm going to be rejected, that they aren't into me, etc, despite people saying i'm an intelligent, masculine and even a handsome man. I feel extremely arrogant just typing that, btw, so you can imagine my self-esteem when it comes to women.

I forgot to add an option number 4): They just want to insult me, because they are somehow intimidated by me, or they feel I don't like them due to a certain stance I have thanks to SAD.

(04-16-2011 05:37 AM)Harold-L Wrote:  By the way, I'm not an expert about any of this stuff myself. I'm here because I have issues too. So I hope you don't expect me to come with any very insightful comments that might cure you or anything. But sometimes it helps to simply talk about these things. And, to a certain extent, I can relate to you. As I said, I don't have HOCD but I do have SA. So I spend a lot of time worrying about what others think of me too.

Of course, I don't expect you, or anyone for that matter, not even my therapist, to magically cure me. That's something that, in the end, only I can accomplish. And thats exactly why I came on here, hoping to find some people whom I could relate to and talk about, and because I was a bit out of it. I appreciate you replying to my posts. Thanks.

Quote:No, I agree with him, it's just that, seeing as how OCD is, in essence, an almost chronic doubt, it sometimes "feels like" you really are what you fear or that people really do say things about you.
I'm definitly sure that it's in essence about not getting a girlfriend.
That is, indeed my "primal" fear. I use the word primal for lack of a better description; almost all of my obsessions, safe for the contamination obsession (not a classic fear of illness, but a fear of traces of peanuts or nuts being on things, since I have experienced an anaphylactic shock as a result of consuming an almond) have basically revolved around that.
I've always been "told" by the bullies, that I was a no-good sack of sh*t, that I wasn't man enough, that I was whimp, and to a certain degree, I still, subconsciously believe that to this day. It prevents me from hitting on women, because I "know" i'm going to be rejected, that they aren't into me, etc, despite people saying i'm an intelligent, masculine and even a handsome man. I feel extremely arrogant just typing that, btw, so you can imagine my self-esteem when it comes to women.

So I guess your SA and HOCD go hand in hand eh? I mean, do you have any SA symptoms that don't revlolve around others believing you're gay/not man enough? Or is that your main fear when it comes to people? Do you feel more comfortable around men than women?
I can relate a lot with you though, my own SA is also based around my really crummy self-esteem. It doesn't really help what others say, does it? People around you might say that you're smart, handsome, etc etc, but if YOU don't believe that to be the case, then their words don't mean anything. Once again, it's all in our heads, and we're the only ones who can do anything about it. Sadly.
At the same time, it is good that you have some nice people around you who try to help you. When it comes to knowing oneself, we are really the worst judges. People around us have a better idea of "who we are", at least on the outside, than we do. We have no clue what we're like and how others perceive us, and that's exactly why we're so vulnerable. So we should probably trust them more than we trust ourselves.

Quote:I forgot to add an option number 4): They just want to insult me, because they are somehow intimidated by me, or they feel I don't like them due to a certain stance I have thanks to SAD.

Doubt it.
Once again, people tend to be more discrete. They might talk behind your back, but most people would wait until you can't hear them. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing though.

Quote:Of course, I don't expect you, or anyone for that matter, not even my therapist, to magically cure me. That's something that, in the end, only I can accomplish. And thats exactly why I came on here, hoping to find some people whom I could relate to and talk about, and because I was a bit out of it. I appreciate you replying to my posts. Thanks.

Ok good, I just wanted to point it out. Sometimes I think people join this forum in the hopes that they'll find experts in the field who can help them cure themselves. But as far as I know, we're all just fellow sufferers. And if we could cure others, we would probably not need to be members here ourselves.

Welcome to the forum ObsessiveTorment. I'd offer my opinion too/try to help, but I think that Harold-L has covered most of the things that come to mind. So, I just want to wish you good luck with everything. It sounds as if you're struggling quite a bit at the moment. Hang in there though. I know things seem really overwhelming at times and it's hard to see things getting any better, but they can and do.

Hey Ana, thanks for the welcome. Thankfully i'm doing a bit better now, especially since therapy is in sight, Wednesday. Thanks, everyone, and especially Harold-L, for their encouraging words.